Music / Features
“Shifting the focus of accessibility for everyone" - A chat with Off The List Records
Off The List Records is a new presence within the Naarm/Melbourne music scene, that, with a DIY ethos at its core, strives towards accessibility, inclusivity, and positivity for all. Co-founders of the label, Dave Dowling and Harley Young were kind enough to have a chat with us to discuss the vision and values of Off The List, along with what to expect in the future from the label.
Dave Dowling had been running DIY shows in his backyard called Under The Almonds for some time when Harley Young approached him in late 2020 with an idea; they could use their collective skillset and start a label that comes from that DIY ethos with the intention to fight the inherent ableism within the music industry and make it a more accessible place for those living with disability.
On the initial idea of the label, Harley says, “Under The Almonds were these really awesome backyard shows [Dave] was putting on with really amazing musicians. I knew Dave was a hard of hearing arts worker and has had his own challenges with disability and I knew that he had all these amazing connections, in the music scene as well and we both liked the same sort of music… and [we] got talking about access which is something we’re both passionate about and what we wanted to see change in the arts space. And just applying that idea to the indie, DIY, experimental music scene.”
When Dave was first approached by Harley, he jumped at the idea with enthusiasm because he thought that it was “well overdue that people within the music industry pay attention to others access needs and actually do it, and do it as best as they can and not shy away from doing it”. Off The List strives on being a disability-led label that puts access needs on the agenda and is vocal about it, in a way that brings allies along with them. Its core values are accessibility, inclusivity and positivity for all within the music industry.
On the initial idea of the label, Harley says, “Under The Almonds were these really awesome backyard shows [Dave] was putting on with really amazing musicians. I knew Dave was a hard of hearing arts worker and has had his own challenges with disability and I knew that he had all these amazing connections, in the music scene as well and we both liked the same sort of music… and [we] got talking about access which is something we’re both passionate about and what we wanted to see change in the arts space. And just applying that idea to the indie, DIY, experimental music scene.”
When Dave was first approached by Harley, he jumped at the idea with enthusiasm because he thought that it was “well overdue that people within the music industry pay attention to others access needs and actually do it, and do it as best as they can and not shy away from doing it”. Off The List strives on being a disability-led label that puts access needs on the agenda and is vocal about it, in a way that brings allies along with them. Its core values are accessibility, inclusivity and positivity for all within the music industry.
The label name, Off The List, embodies what they stand for and the change that they are trying to make within the music industry. As Dave puts it, it comes from lived experience of accessibility issue; “when a bouncer says to you, ‘you’re off the list, you can’t come in’, that shortfall in terms of accessibility of getting into venues”. This speaks to the multifaceted inaccessibility and discrimination faced by those with disability within the music industry when trying to access the music scene, from simply trying to get into the venue, and also further to trying to play on the stages of the venues, which is something that Off The List are working hard to change.
Harley reflects on this in terms of what Off The List stand for, “we want to work with artists that have been ‘off the list’ for a long time and that’s why we wanted the name to suit the ideals that we stand by.“ Being ‘off the list’, which comes from a throwaway line a mate of theirs and fellow committee member Ty [Noble] would say, has a deeper meaning in terms of who’s able to play and participate in the music scene. As such, inclusivity is at the core of the label - a key idea of providing everyone with a chance within the music industry - reflected in their release model which is at least 50% artists with disability as well as allies. Harley explains, “you want allies and people with disability to care and go ‘you know what I care so much about access and these issues that I want to be on a label that cares about these things as well’, and so that’s what we’re trying to do is just shift that focus around access to being not just an issue for artists with disability but for everyone.” Ultimately the label is about evening the playing field and making things more accessible, bringing communities together, celebrating differences and making gig spaces a truly safe space for all in every sense of the term.
In working to shift attitudes within the music industry, Off The List strive towards systemic change but in a way that starts with little things. For example, one of those smaller changes Dave thinks people can make is “letting people know that they do have the option of putting alt-text on their Instagram posts, and then people with screen reading can read those posts and interact with them. I think that’s one of the most important ones, not coming in too aggressively about it but just saying ‘hey did you know, here’s how you can be a bit more accessible’”. As Dave puts it, “educating other people within the music industry, about small changes that they can make, is even one of the bigger [changes]”.
Harley purports the key purpose of Off The List is working towards “the greater visibility of artists with disability in the music scene and seeing people care a bit more about access. I think that’s why we wanted to host shows, and that’s why it’s an important aspect. That’s a really strong skill set that Dave has, of being able to curate shows and get people behind them. I think he’s a really good booker and he does it really well. It’s good to have an idea but we want to build a community around the label and that’s what we’re trying to do now too and why we host shows on top of just releasing music… we want people with disabilities to be able to come to the shows and know that whatever we put out there and the shows that we host they can attend.” With the idea that others within the music industry can learn from the work that Off The List are doing, gigs will then become a safer and more accessible space.
When talking about increasing accessibility within the music industry, the pair share some key advice for those putting on gigs:
* Provide access information in your promo for shows and an email or phone contact for anyone who has access related questions.
* When looking for a support act, thinking more broadly about who you can engage – ‘do you know any artists with disability?’ If you don’t, go out and find some, connect with them, do some networking and get to know them.
Harley reflects on this in terms of what Off The List stand for, “we want to work with artists that have been ‘off the list’ for a long time and that’s why we wanted the name to suit the ideals that we stand by.“ Being ‘off the list’, which comes from a throwaway line a mate of theirs and fellow committee member Ty [Noble] would say, has a deeper meaning in terms of who’s able to play and participate in the music scene. As such, inclusivity is at the core of the label - a key idea of providing everyone with a chance within the music industry - reflected in their release model which is at least 50% artists with disability as well as allies. Harley explains, “you want allies and people with disability to care and go ‘you know what I care so much about access and these issues that I want to be on a label that cares about these things as well’, and so that’s what we’re trying to do is just shift that focus around access to being not just an issue for artists with disability but for everyone.” Ultimately the label is about evening the playing field and making things more accessible, bringing communities together, celebrating differences and making gig spaces a truly safe space for all in every sense of the term.
In working to shift attitudes within the music industry, Off The List strive towards systemic change but in a way that starts with little things. For example, one of those smaller changes Dave thinks people can make is “letting people know that they do have the option of putting alt-text on their Instagram posts, and then people with screen reading can read those posts and interact with them. I think that’s one of the most important ones, not coming in too aggressively about it but just saying ‘hey did you know, here’s how you can be a bit more accessible’”. As Dave puts it, “educating other people within the music industry, about small changes that they can make, is even one of the bigger [changes]”.
Harley purports the key purpose of Off The List is working towards “the greater visibility of artists with disability in the music scene and seeing people care a bit more about access. I think that’s why we wanted to host shows, and that’s why it’s an important aspect. That’s a really strong skill set that Dave has, of being able to curate shows and get people behind them. I think he’s a really good booker and he does it really well. It’s good to have an idea but we want to build a community around the label and that’s what we’re trying to do now too and why we host shows on top of just releasing music… we want people with disabilities to be able to come to the shows and know that whatever we put out there and the shows that we host they can attend.” With the idea that others within the music industry can learn from the work that Off The List are doing, gigs will then become a safer and more accessible space.
When talking about increasing accessibility within the music industry, the pair share some key advice for those putting on gigs:
* Provide access information in your promo for shows and an email or phone contact for anyone who has access related questions.
* When looking for a support act, thinking more broadly about who you can engage – ‘do you know any artists with disability?’ If you don’t, go out and find some, connect with them, do some networking and get to know them.
Within the music industry, there are many people that want to be more inclusive and accessible but fear that if they do it wrong, they could be shunned as a result. With that in mind, Dave and Harley’s message is clear - don’t be fearful about not being 100% accessible, take baby steps and learn as you go.
“If you’re a venue and you've got three steps and a handrail, it’s really important for people to know that you've got three steps and a handrail. While that’s not fully accessible, some people with a disability might still be able to attend the venue, and that’s really important and it’s a really good thing that you put that access information up.” Adding on, Dave explains “a big barrier is the fear of not doing it right… what stops individuals or venues or organisations or groups from giving that 100% go is that fear that it is going to paint a bad picture for us in the community or we might we get cancelled if we try it and we do it wrong.” He empathises with those who feel that way, but ultimately, explains “I don’t really see it as a barrier; like if you provide as much information on who you are and what you're doing and what you're options are then you're doing a great job”.
As echoed in the sentiments of both Dave and Harley, doing something to help things be more accessible is better than not doing anything at all for fear that it might be done wrong. Being present in discussions around inclusivity and accessibility is key, as is doing as much as you can, which is better than not trying at all.
“If you’re a venue and you've got three steps and a handrail, it’s really important for people to know that you've got three steps and a handrail. While that’s not fully accessible, some people with a disability might still be able to attend the venue, and that’s really important and it’s a really good thing that you put that access information up.” Adding on, Dave explains “a big barrier is the fear of not doing it right… what stops individuals or venues or organisations or groups from giving that 100% go is that fear that it is going to paint a bad picture for us in the community or we might we get cancelled if we try it and we do it wrong.” He empathises with those who feel that way, but ultimately, explains “I don’t really see it as a barrier; like if you provide as much information on who you are and what you're doing and what you're options are then you're doing a great job”.
As echoed in the sentiments of both Dave and Harley, doing something to help things be more accessible is better than not doing anything at all for fear that it might be done wrong. Being present in discussions around inclusivity and accessibility is key, as is doing as much as you can, which is better than not trying at all.
Like many within the music industry, the current Covid pandemic has halted plans for Off The List to an extent, especially as live music is such an essential aspect of their operations, a frustration Dave shares, “dealing with the current pandemic is the course at the moment. My modus operandi is putting on the shows and they're all at a stand still at the moment and it’s kind of just like we can just keep putting one step after another and tentatively planning these shows.”
However there is still plenty to look forward to on the horizon for Off The List. “We do have the Slumlawwd album coming out in October, and besides that we’re just sort of going with it.” Harley speaks about future plans with a sense of considered optimism; “we’re talking with a few bands at the moment about releases for 2022”, keeping with their 50% artists with disability and 50% ally model, to “bring allies and artists with disability together under the same label”.
As hinted at earlier, Off The List have their first release coming out in October with Slumlawwd’s album Fuckburg. Harley speaks with a sense of unbridled enthusiasm about the prospect of Slumlawwd’s new album; “Scott the lead-singer from Slumlawwd was the lead guitarist in my band [Harley Young and the Haymakers]. Scott lives with disability and he’s a long time mate and I’ve always been a big fan of his music, and that’s how it came to be. I knew that he was putting out an album with Slumlawwd and I’ve loved Slumlawwd for a long time, so we just thought the stars aligned for that one. The album is called Fuckburg, it’s an incredible album, that feels like this epic garage opera about the decline of society.”
The latest single from Fuckburg is ‘I Hate Us’, which retains the scuzzed-out distortion of previous single ‘Withdrawn Failure’ but dials things down a little, as a reflective mood permeates the song. Scott’s idiosyncratic growl marks the track as he takes aim at the entire capitalist system and lists its faults, something the press release describes as “a caustic accounting of the crimes of the privileged, both real and imagined”. A true splash of outsider punk attitude, it’s a gripping listen that cleverly treads on important issues while maintaining a humorous bent that shows the band don’t take themselves too seriously. From what we’ve heard so far, the album is going to be one hell of a statement when it drops, and an equally important moment for the team at Off The List.
From a DIY ethos, with an attitude of just giving it a crack, Off The List is a much needed presence in Australian music, and it will be exciting to see them grow as they work to promote change for the better in the live music space.
However there is still plenty to look forward to on the horizon for Off The List. “We do have the Slumlawwd album coming out in October, and besides that we’re just sort of going with it.” Harley speaks about future plans with a sense of considered optimism; “we’re talking with a few bands at the moment about releases for 2022”, keeping with their 50% artists with disability and 50% ally model, to “bring allies and artists with disability together under the same label”.
As hinted at earlier, Off The List have their first release coming out in October with Slumlawwd’s album Fuckburg. Harley speaks with a sense of unbridled enthusiasm about the prospect of Slumlawwd’s new album; “Scott the lead-singer from Slumlawwd was the lead guitarist in my band [Harley Young and the Haymakers]. Scott lives with disability and he’s a long time mate and I’ve always been a big fan of his music, and that’s how it came to be. I knew that he was putting out an album with Slumlawwd and I’ve loved Slumlawwd for a long time, so we just thought the stars aligned for that one. The album is called Fuckburg, it’s an incredible album, that feels like this epic garage opera about the decline of society.”
The latest single from Fuckburg is ‘I Hate Us’, which retains the scuzzed-out distortion of previous single ‘Withdrawn Failure’ but dials things down a little, as a reflective mood permeates the song. Scott’s idiosyncratic growl marks the track as he takes aim at the entire capitalist system and lists its faults, something the press release describes as “a caustic accounting of the crimes of the privileged, both real and imagined”. A true splash of outsider punk attitude, it’s a gripping listen that cleverly treads on important issues while maintaining a humorous bent that shows the band don’t take themselves too seriously. From what we’ve heard so far, the album is going to be one hell of a statement when it drops, and an equally important moment for the team at Off The List.
From a DIY ethos, with an attitude of just giving it a crack, Off The List is a much needed presence in Australian music, and it will be exciting to see them grow as they work to promote change for the better in the live music space.
Keep up to date with Off The List Records below.
